File talk:Ayr map.gif
the in game map can not be used. We are not allowed to use images from the game, they are copyrighted and we do not have permission to use them. Galdun 02:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Would it be possible for you to explain why this would not be considered "fair use"? It would be nice to know what the standards on that are and while I wasn't the one who uploaded that image, I'd like to know for future use what is acceptable. It seems to me that the usage of the Ayr map image would be considered "fair use". According to U.S. copyright law, when determining "fair use" you should take int account "the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes" as well as "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work". It seems that we're using it for a nonprofit educational purpose and that its use does not effect the potential market for the work. It would seem on first glance to be exactly the sort of situation that "fair use" would cover. Thanks. EdwardIV 16:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Yes, it would be good to determine if this falls within fair use. In game screen shots are often used within RK in forums and throughout this and other wikis. LrdKondo 16:10, 13 August 2008 (UTC) First off, the game falls under French laws not US laws. Second there is a post on the forum (I will try and find it later) that specifically prohibits the use of in game maps outside of the game. I have sent a message to Levan asking what we can and can't use. I'm not hopeful on a response however. The post is in the FAQ section and possibly the announcements. This is why Baiboe's maps are not the same as in game maps. If someone can find something to the contrary I will restore the images and gladly add all the ones that I have saved. Galdun 18:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC) Thanks for responding - while the game may fall under French laws, Wikia would fall under U.S. laws. When editing Wikia, we are not bound by French law. In terms of the in-game map statement in the forum, I think it's important to balance that with the actual Terms of Use that are agreed to at the beginning of the game. A link to a forum article would be helpful, but it's also important to realize that forum postings do not have the same force as an agreement that has been agreed to by each user. EdwardIV 15:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC) http://forum.renaissancekingdoms.com/viewtopic.php?t=43617 Galdun 17:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC) :Hello there ! :I want to point out that game maps are part of the game, and must not be found out of the game. Particularly, it's strictly forbidden to export or copy-paste them anywhere - in this forum or elsewhere on the net. It's also forbidden to make assemblages or paste-up. :The idea of such game maps is to give players a small "subjective and partial" point of view of the world. Should some "official big maps" be available, that it would alter completely this idea. :(Besides, these maps, as part of the game, are protected by copyright laws). :Thank you very much for your comprehension ! It seems that what they were hoping for has already been thwarted. The "'subjective and partial' point of view of the world" was side stepped by the creation of the larger maps of all of RK (not just Scotland) that are widely distributed within the forums. As to their parting (and forum) comment on copyright laws, again, U.S. law permits fair use and unless the RK developers add additional restrictions to the terms of use we're not breaking any rule presented to us: IG or otherwise. The RK developers may have wanted the user to see and understand a certain way and at a certain pace - perhaps hoping for the 'fog of the war' to play a role. This was more plausible in the days before the internet; but wikis, personal web sites and a myriad of other social networking options provide nearly limitless means to disseminate game information. What we need to resolve here in this wiki is if we're going to thwart one another as we share tutorial information visitors. If anything, this wiki serves to promote the game - encouraging players to join and existing players to remain. Screen shots are in intergral part of that tutorial process and is a standard practice on all gaming sites so we'll need to reconcile Galdun's caution with that standard practice. LrdKondo 14:05, 15 August 2008 (UTC)